Classic Shell: Forum

Since I installed W8.1 some weeks ago, the Start Button does not appear after booting the PC.

- I followed the guidance in this forum and made a repair installation with the same CS version (4.02), but it did not solve the problem.

- I also initiated the repair installation as administrator: no success.

- I tried it, when starting Windows in in Safe Mode: no success (because Windows Installer does not run in Safe Mode).

Perhaps it is interesting, that Windows Task Manager shows, that the Classic Shell task is active after PC boot. If I then start CS manually, the Start Button appears. Windows Task Manager shows two Classic Shell Tasks after this work-arround.

Is there any way, to fix this problem?

Regards
Karl

That means that the start menu exe has failed to hook the explorer process. It may be a timing issue (maybe explorer starts too fast or too slow). After you log in, go to the desktop and try restarting the explorer process from the Task Manager. See if the start menu works then.

If it doesn't work, then it is not a timing issue. It may be something to do with permissions. Using Task Manager, see if both processes ClassicStartMenu.exe and explorer.exe run as different users.

Ok, I just restarted the PC, closed Windows Explorer and restarted it: Problem NOT solved.

I checked the process ownerships:

- Classic Shell is owned by "System"
- Windows Explorer is owned by "Trusted Installer".
- Edit: After manual start of CS: Both CS tasks are owned by "System"

What to do now?

Best regards
Karl

That's quite weird. Both processes must be owned by the logged in user. That may be the source of your problem.
This may temporarily happen if you just installed Classic Shell, but should go back to normal after you reboot the PC.

You need to figure out why Explorer is running as "Trusted installer". This should only be the case if it is launched by an installer.

I restarted the PC: Windows Explorer is still owned by TrustedInstaller. Which owner should it be?

That problem is beyond my competence. How to find out, why Windows Explorer is owned by TrustedInstaller?

Why does this ownership has no influence on all the other applications on my PC?

Best regards
Karl

The normal thing is to be owned by you (the logged in user). If Explorer runs as installer, then it is elevated and normal processes like the start menu can't interact with it (for security reasons). Other applications don't have a problem with it because they don't try to hook the explorer process.

One thing that may be happening is that some software installed a service or another startup process that runs Explorer elevated. You can try using a tool like Process Explorer to see which process is the parent of explorer.exe. Make sure you run Process Explorer as admin.

Process Explorer shows the following:

- Parent: <non-existent Process>(1692)
- User: [MyPC}\[My Username]

My impression is, that there is a difference between "Owner" and "User".

Any ideas?

Regards
Karl

That seems normal then. I don't get where you got the "owner" from.
The normal situation after logging in is:
explorer.exe runs as the current user (you)
ClassicStartMenu.exe runs as the same user, and is a child process of explorer.exe

One thing you haven't mentioned yet is - what version of Windows are you using? What is your UAC level?

I got the "owner" from WindowsTaskManager / Security Tab / Enhanced Button.

ProcessExplorer does not show ClassicStartMenue.exe as child of Explorer.exe but under svhost.exe(332). At "User" it shows: <access denied>

My OS is Win 8.1/64 and my user account is an administrator account. ClassicStartMenu.exe is set under "Compatibility" to "run as administrator".

What now?

Best regards
Karl

The "owner" you see there is the owner of the file, not the process. Since the explorer.exe file was installed by the Windows installer, it is owned by it.

ClassicStartMenu.exe should NOT run as administrator. Remove the compatibility setting. It prevents the normal communication between the start menu and explorer.

Ok, I removed the "Run as administrator"-setting of ClassicStartMenue.exe and restarted the PC, but that did NOT solve the problem. ProcessExplorer shows ClassicStartMenue.exe still under svhost.exe and not under Explorer.exe.

What can I do?

Best regards
Karl

PS.: Sorry, I have to pause now for some hours, because it is after midnight here.

It is not clear at the moment how ClassicStartMenu.exe gets launched. The way it is supposed to work is:

Explorer starts. It tries to load one of its components. That component is redirected to load StartMenuHelper64.dll. That dll starts ClassicStartMenu.exe from inside explorer.

That's why explorer.exe is going to be the parent process of the start menu.

If the parent is svchost.exe, then it is launched by a service. Did you mess with services, or with the registry or with the Startup folder?

Ok, it late, but a last attempt: I checked my ScheduledTask and remembered, that I installed some months ago a task to start ClassicStartMenue at System startup (because it did not start automatically). I deactivated it and restarted the PC. No there is the old problem, that ClassicStartMenue does not start at all. But after I started it manually, I could find it in ProcessExplorer UNDER Explorer.exe.

The remaining (old) problem is, that it does not start automatically. I will make an last attempt to start it with Autostart folder.

Karl

Last feedback this night:

I copied a link to ClassicStartMenue.exe into the Autostart-folder and restarted the PC: Same behavior as weeks ago after uptdate to Win 8.1: ClassicStartMenue does not start at all (also not visible in TaskManager).

Will be back tomorrow.

Karl

OK, now things are starting to unravel. The scheduler is probably starting the menu as admin, or maybe it starts it too early (if the start menu runs before explorer, it will fail to hook it). One thing to check is for an option in the task to run as a normal user instead of admin. Another thing is to look for some delay - maybe it can run the menu after 1-2 seconds, allowing for explorer to start first.

Ideally none of this will be necessary. The start menu should start automatically with explorer if installed correctly.
Run regedit and look for a registry key named HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{ECD4FC4D-521C-11D0-B792-00A0C90312E1}\TreatAs. It should have a unnamed value {D3214FBB-3CA1-406a-B3E8-3EB7C393A15E}. Check if you have that.

I am not sure what you men by "autostart-folder". There is a folder "Start Menu\Programs\Startup", and any shortcut placed there should execute when you log in. Starting with Windows 8, there is a delay of 5-10 seconds before such shortcuts are executed. That's the root of the entire problem - because Windows 8 added a delay for the startup programs, it is necessary to resort to such hacks like messing with the registry.

Hi,

the registry key exists, as you decrcibed.

"Autostart" is the name of the Startup folder in german Windows versions. Three such folders do exist:

- under C:\Users for the user account
- under C:\Users for the administrator account
- under C:\Program Data\Microsoft\Windows\Startmenue

I made a further test and reactivated my Windows task to start ClassicShellMenue.exe after system start, but without "highest rights" (not as administrator). I tried it without delay and also with 30 seconds delay. Both tests failed.

The only way that works is to start it manually.

Regards
Karl

If you use the task scheduler to run the start menu, it should not be on "system start", but on "log in". The sequence of events is - 1) system starts, 2) you log in, 3) explorer starts. If you start the menu at system start, it is bad for two reasons. First, it will run before explorer and will fail to connect to it. And second, it will run outside of the desktop environment (it is kind of like a parallel universe) and can't see anything that happens on your desktop.

You can try changing the start condition to "log in". My prediction is that it will still fail like it does when it runs from the startup folder.

Most likely the start menu does run if you install it normally or use the startup folder, but then it fails and exits. Some people have reported problems like that when Zone Alarm is installed. If you have any such firewall or anti-virus software, try disabling it temporarily to see if they are the culprit. Most such software has ways to specify a list of software to be exempt from its meddling. Try adding ClassicStartMenu.exe and explorer.exe to the list.

At the end I achieved a solution:

I created again a Windows task. This time, I selected a "simple" task (needs no password) and set the trigger to start it "on log on". I had also to define a delay to get it working correctly. Three seconds delay was not working; at the moment it is 3 minutes. I assume, I can decrease it and I will optimize this time by trial and error.

Regards
Karl