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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:13 am 
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I've noticed that Microsoft seems to be subtly euthanizing many features Classic Shell has to offer. Like, we see more and more features being cut from Classic Shell with every new Windows release.

I'm sure this isn't Ivo's fault. In fact, he's made it very clear that a lot of things that are possible in, say, Windows 7 simply aren't possible in Windows 8 or Windows 10 due to the way Microsoft has changed certain aspects of the way features in Windows work. Microsoft seems to be REALLY forceful about how people use their os. I noticed this as early as Windows Vista, and even more so with Windows 7. It was about that time I discovered Classic Shell, which made Windows 7 miles more customizable than it was out of the box. But when Windows 8 came out, I saw that Microsoft had essentially killed a few features Classic Shell had to offer. Mainly with Classic Explorer (the Classic Start menu seems like it would be harder to kill since it's not as dependent on Explorer's code). I thought this was annoying, but didn't think much more than that.

Then I saw a thread about using the classic navigation pane in Windows 10, and how compatibility for that had been cut due to the way the navigation pane in Windows 10 worked. That's when I started thinking that Microsoft is purposely changing Windows to be less compatible with Classic Shell. I know that might sound a little crazy, but when each new release of Windows becomes less customizable (without Classic Shell) it really makes you wonder how much they just want everyone to use a universal, streamlined experience.

Now I'm sure Microsoft has their own reasons for changing things the way they do. But I can't help but wonder if maybe they do want users to have less customization, even by means of third-party tools, mainly because they are making their OS without Classic Shell less and less customizable. Obviously they can't just outright ban Classic Shell, but it just feels like they're doing what they can to prevent it from being as customizable as it was in Windows 7. Just a thought.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:51 pm 
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I doubt it has anything to do with classic shell, its more about not bothering to re-implement an old feature/dll in the new OS
in-fact Microsoft goes to great lengths to maintain compatibility, and plug&play Including about 6GB on your hdd dedicated to windows SxS Its just features pertaining to the UI are usually cut when the processes dependent on them are. I wonder the actual market share of all start menu replacement programs. I would estimate under 20% of windows 8 machines


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:31 pm 
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Yeah, I guess you're right. I just find it amazing how customization gets cut more and more with each new Windows release. I really feel like they want everyone to have the same type of streamlined experience, and that's something I'm just not a fan of. But yeah, you probably are right in saying that they don't have Classic Shell in mind when they make whatever changes they do. I just find it a bit disappointing when features that I like are lost, whether they be Windows features or Classic Shell features.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:03 am 
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That's part of it yea, if there's less customization its far easier to troubleshoot anything that goes wrong to ;P I think they have honed in on the fact that most people don't want to bother with customization anyways.. (its sad but 'nerds' have been the minority in computing for quite some time)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:57 pm 
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Jcee wrote:
That's part of it yea, if there's less customization its far easier to troubleshoot anything that goes wrong to ;P


I kind of thought that's why customization was lessening. It makes sense, but yeah, it is a shame for nerds.

Anyway, I do want to clarify something from my first post. You see, that post was mainly aimed towards Classic Explorer (and not so much Classic Start Menu). Now obviously Classic Explorer is a shell extension. And I just find it interesting that Microsoft changes things in a way that Classic Shell can't change. Now I'm not saying that Microsoft is changing thing JUST with Classic Shell in mind, but do you think they could be limiting the capabilities of shell extensions as a whole? I mean it would make sense for both troubleshooting and security, not to mention the percentage of people who actually use shell extensions. So I think that could be a possibility, and of course not bothering to re-implement old features like you said (which very well might be the biggest reason for this).

I think that exclamation would make more sense than Microsoft trying to prevent Classic Shell exclusively from having all of the features it once had.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:20 am 
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as a whole definitely... back in the early days they went through great strides to make everything as customizable as possible, even allowing you to modify the background image of any folder (I believe you could even create a custom UI to be displayed inside a folder) just by editing the desktop.ini file that's hidden in every folder (its still there; but far less functional now)

Yet they haven't made an API for using live tiles (at least as-of windows 8.1, but there's still hope with windows 10)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:49 am 
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R.O.B. your observation is right. The truth is the new Microsoft is exactly the opposite of the old Microsoft. They want to give minimal features, do not want to maintain continuity of any feature. Naturally, while redesigning UIs to make you upgrade constantly, customization and extensibility get lost. They just don't care about it. Over the years, features have been removed tremendously.

Yes new features are also being added but they fail to understand the impact of removing features. Even Microsoft's new CEO says "Our industry respects only new innovation, not tradition" by which he implies that they will only focus on adding new innovation, not bother to maintain any previously shipped feature.

It is absurd and outright scandalous in my opinion the way the new Microsoft behaves but that's the way it is. It's a deal-breaker for many.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:42 pm 
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I'm running Windows 10 Pro Preview on an older DELL laptop. Dual core but 32 bit processor. I was going to download the newest build 10041 but noticed today after leaving the laptop on all day that it updated itself. I noticed that Classic Shell had to be re-initialized as well as the fact that One Drive was not working... again. I turned it off with WinPatrol and since I changed to a "local account" I do not use the cloud nor syncronize. Now the destop is showing the new build and it is working ok with Classic Shell.

What feature were you haveing issues with? I can look at it on my machine and see if the new build allows it or not.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:12 pm 
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It was a common sense that Apple is "successful" and they are gurus of user experience since some while ago. And Microsoft caught the hook, they started to imitate Apple after Gates left. That's why they are removing the customizations and trying to lock your hardware.

In Linux, there is a similar trend, every desktop tries to imitate the behavior of MacOS (remember Ubuntu moving the windows' buttons to the left?).

I do not know what idiot at Microsoft decided that a company with 95% market share should imitate a company with 5% market share. A contrived mind.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:12 pm 
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Anixx wrote:
It was a common sense that Apple is "successful" and they are gurus of user experience since some while ago. And Microsoft caught the hook, they started to imitate Apple after Gates left. That's why they are removing the customizations and trying to lock your hardware.

In Linux, there is a similar trend, every desktop tries to imitate the behavior of MacOS (remember Ubuntu moving the windows' buttons to the left?).

I do not know what idiot at Microsoft decided that a company with 95% market share should imitate a company with 5% market share. A contrived mind.


I think Microsoft just realized that the majority of Windows users don't care about customization when Apple didn't implement it as much in their OS. And even though Apple holds a small part of the market share they have built for themselves a really good public image. With the right advertising and maybe even a little bit of social engineering, they made the market see them as 'cool' and more user-friendly. Many people fell for Apple's advertising, believed that their overpriced computers were just more advanced than Windows (not trying to start a Mac VS. PC war here, I'm just saying that with a PC you can generally get more for your money hardware-wise; if anyone here uses Mac, that's fine, it's just not for me). So for their own image, Microsoft feels the need to show that they are just as advanced as Apple, and that any exaggerated Windows stereotypes people believe (BSOD every 5 minutes) are dated.

And as mentioned earlier, less customization = easier troubleshooting, so that's less work for support. Oh how I miss the days of Windows 98/2000/XP. Ah well.

As for Linux, since most Linux distros are open-source, you can get around that if you know how to. But if not, then it's up to you to find tools and programs to change certain aspects of the interface (like the position of the window controls and such). I can't stand the default interface for Ubuntu, and I've always looked into alternate shells when I've messed with it. Not sure I'd switch to it right away though. I'm just so familiar with Windows and that would take a lot of learning new stuff. Plus, I really like Windows, and I'd probably end up trying to make Linux look and act as much like Windows as possible. :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:32 pm 
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And as mentioned earlier, less customization = easier troubleshooting, so that's less work for support.


Less customization = more third-party utilities and hacks which are not always compatible with each other. This of course does not apply to Apple because their users are willing to accept whatever is shipped.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:35 pm 
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it does, but those aren't supported, and the company doesn't have to do anything about that :P (and usually doesn't)


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